Grammar Commando
Every once in a while, I'll see a mini-debate erupt on a blog site about the importance of grammar. I remember once, about a year and a half ago, Jude sent me to a site where one writer was pontificating that the rules of grammar were really immaterial to a good story. After all, isn't that what editors are for?
Yes and no.
I think the most important "rule" to remember actually simplifies this argument and has to do with story. Anything that takes the reader OUT of the story is bad. Keeping them in your world is good. Hence, even if an editor likes the serial comma and a comma after even short introductory clauses, if you are consistent, after a page or two it fades into the background as your story takes hold.
However, if you have many sloppy errors--basic grammar rules that most writers should know, that indicate to an editor you didn't bother to have your manuscript proofed or you don't care . . . or you don't ever show your work to anyone who can tell you what you don't know . . . or you are sloppy or you rushed to send it off . . . it does and will irritate. Each time it's a tiny irritant, like a piece of sand in the eye. It jolts out of story. Once or twice . . . fine. Over and over, less so.
The flip side to all this is that perfection is impossible. So you can't agonize over the manuscript you mailed that you later discovered has a typo on page 7.
For me, the grammar issue I struggled with the most was which/that. I went to school during some of my formative years on a small British-controlled island (Bermuda). The Brits do some grammar rules differently. I believe that is one of them, along with a handful of others that I occasionally still struggle with (dangling participle at the end there!). That also drifts into my spelling. I never get the American spelling of gray/grey correct.
How about you? What grammar rules drive you nuts? And how much do you fret over your manuscript proofing?
31 comments:
The gray/grey thing drives me nuts. As a designer, you see "grayscale" a lot and it seems to be split 50/50 on whether people prefer an A or E.
My biggest grammar issue seems to be commas, but I'm getting better. I was overthinking things for awhile so now I follow my gut and that seems to be better.
I have so much trouble with which/that that I've almost banished "which" from my writing.
I looked it up in the Chicago Manual of Style. "Which" is for nonrestrictive clauses (clauses not necessary to the sentence). "That" is for restrictive clauses.
Maybe I've learned something today.
Melanie:
I have great comma radar. :-)
E
Joe:
Strunk and White has a great which/that example.I always get their version better than Chicago for that specific issue. Much clearer, I think.
E
I'm lucky to have a CP who's an English major. She rarely corrects my grammar, so I think I'm okay. Though I'm not anal about grammar, it bothers me when there are a lot of errors in a ms. If the writer doesn't care enough to do her best, why would I care to read it?
I know there are a few grammar issues I'm not aware of, lol, but every word choice, punctuation choice and grammar choice is a writer's power. I also believe in the power of breaking the rules, as long as it's done knowingly for an effect. (There's another word, lol.)
That said, my one pub put in so many commas they changed the meaning. He was using outdated nonfiction rules (plus some). I did a lot of study on the comma and ended up using the rules an Ellora's Cave editor shared with me, which were based on internet readability statistics.
That makes the most sense to me, because writing is all about your effect on the reader.
Hi Edie:
I remember being asked to read a few manuscripts from a publisher-friend's slush pile. I was astonished at some of the basically sloppy, careless manuscripts that were submitted. I don't understand not putting forth your best effort.
E
Spy:
Yeah . . . some people can do comma overload. Readability is what everyone should be aiming for. That said, I probably am on the comma "high end" of the spectrum. ;-)
E
I go in and out of grammar issues. I battled for some time with the "he wore" versus "he is wearing" sort of thing, and the recent one for me is the "which" versus "that" and still remains somewhat up in the air until I decide which is more appropriate.
I'm the editor of a technical journal, so I often find I'm forced to make decisions about these things, and I usually opt for clarity and consistency over any particular grammar rule, especially since (okay, because) some of the style guides--AP versus AMA versus Chicago--have their own nitpicking rules.
One of my associate editors is a real stickler and we used to get into the "lab" versus "laboratory" thing, although my argument is that "lab" has been around since about 1900, and I'm all for casual. But I tend to go with the author's original usage unless it's weird or inconsistent.
It prompted me to respond to all of my column editors with something along the lines of: "Unless we are editing a story about The Labrador Genetics Research Lab run by Laddie Landon and his pet Lab, Lad, who has the the run of the Lab lab" I think lab is entirely appropriate.
I get rather cranky about "data is" versus "data are" preferring "data" to be singular versus plural. That's my argument and I'm sticking with thems.
Detroit street grammar is more flexible. As one alley poet explained to me "Strunk & White? They's those boys with a stick up their **s 'bout the ways wes (plural of the already plural "we") writes."
Although I was most impressed by his ability to string three "w" words in a row (ways wes writes), his point is a bit deeper, but is an interesting restatement of the traditional back and forth of usage versus rules, or chaos versus order.
It's quite over my head, but tonight I will head to the Motor City Casino to seek further enlightenment on this topic.
Mark:
Data is plural. :-)
E
Rick:
I think some of the argument is that you can break the rules as long as you do it with order and consistency. That you do it with the power of knowledge. Dialect, cultural differences . . . etc. . . . I think are fine. But when it's something wildly inconsistent, with no clear basis for the choices, then it's just sloppy writing. At least that's where I come from with a bakground as an editor.
That aside . . . I look at old poetry of mine and find I bend the rules . . . I had a lot of street dialect in mine . . . and poetry slams and so on--again, the case can be made. It's an art form versus hard and fast traditional writing.
Enjoy the casino. ;-)
E
People who confuse there and their should have there birthdays taken away.
Stephen:
And what do you do with the ones who don't know the difference between apostrophe s and plural s? Shoot them?
;-)
E
On Motown Slang, such as it be:
In college I took a sociolinguistics course. The primary lesson I took away is that all dialects have rules, although they may not be obvious to non-dialect speakers, and that within the dialect, those rules are correct.
For instance, one example was "I seen that..." which for standard English is inaccurate. But for certain English dialects (my mother-in-law), it was perfectly appropriate within that dialect.
BEV, or black english vernacular, at least that's what it was 20+ years ago, had its own rules, too.
mark:
You said that so much better than I.
:-)
E
I follow my gut on this issue too, Erica. I'm not anal about it, and once I'm happy with a story the editing process takes care of the rest. I don't read books in edit-mode either, unless it's a "flasher" of a bloop.
I think comma use confuses many, as well as the semi-colon. Too many commas, imo, slow down the read, unless it's a list of stuff.
My biggest pet peeve is when writers misspell the two/to/too, their/ they're/ there, and then/than. I mean, it's a basic we all learned in the lower grades. I think it's a writer's duty to know the simple part of spelling and grammar - I mean, we are in the word business, right?
And what do you do with the ones who don't know the difference between apostrophe s and plural s? Shoot them?
Its obvious there live's are pointless.
Okay now I'm going to obsess about the gray/grey thing. Though I think as long as one is used consistently throughout a work, it doesn't matter.
My main problem is punctuation, specifically commas, but I'm getting a lot better at it.
I think what freaked me out is that some commas are mandatory and some are style issues, so I was thinking "less is more" like people wouldn't notice, haha! But then I had to figure it out. I try to avoid stylistic commas when I can and let the reader interpret/define the cadence.
Me and grammar ain't never got along.
What about 'there's five children in the family'. Singular and plural verbs should be obvious to even a simpleton but I often see that mistake.
As an ex-English teacher, I have few issues with grammar and my line edits involve only commas and repeated words. Yet I always have to think about which/that. I know the rule well and have taught it for years but I still pause each time.
I work in real estate and my toes curl at some of the copy the agents try to use in their advertising. Bright, successful people with no idea about basic grammar and spelling.
Back to school, I say.
LaDonna:
I always think that's one of the magic elements of a good crit group. One person is almost always a grammar god.
E
Kath:
I love the semi-colon.
:-)
E
zoe:
"Less is more" is the new way of thinking on the comma. But I still find I like introductory clauses to have them, even the short ones. And I ALWAYS have them for compound sentences and really hate when I see writers who don't use them in that situation.
E
Travis:
Grammar ain't that bad.
E
suzanne:
I see that too. I was once approached about writing some copy for a Realtor. The woman's copy was horrific. But she had a distinctly unpleasant personality so I declined to work with her. I checked out her site not too long ago. STILL a grammatical nightmare. I don't know . . . seems so unprofessional. Now I know why my father really believed in a liberal arts education. "If you can write, you can do anything," he would tell me.
E
Stephen,
I used to feel that way about there and their too, but I'll tell you something. Age affects things. Thirty-five years ago, When I taught grammar and writing (we used Strunk and White, Erica, but I haven't looked at it for a while), I thought that once you learned to deal with the common homonyms, you had it forever. Now, at 66, I make mistakes as I am writing along and catch them later. I still know the difference, but now I am not as sharp on those things. I never thought it would happen, but it did for me, and it may happen for others too.
Joe:
You are 66 years YOUNG.
:-)
E
After all, isn't that what editors are for?
Anyone submitting to industry professionals with that attitude probably isn't going to get far.
That said, if I thought I could get away with it I would do away with most punctuation the way Cormac McCarthy does.
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